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RWB



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Location: KSAT

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Interesting rule Reply with quote

One thing I've learned about aviation photography is know the law and stand up for your rights! Obviously rules vary from airport to airport but I found this one on the San Antonio airports web site;
Section 3-150 - Prohibition against the Recording of Aircraft Registration Information.
The recording of any Aircraft registration information by Persons or tenants other than those servicing or handling said Aircraft is expressly prohibited without the written permission of the Aircraft owner, operator, or his/her designee.
This can be found here http://www.sanantonio.gov/Aviation/imagelibrary/uploadedfiles/upload-217201130045pm.pdf
I've never had an Officer bring this up but you never know.

   
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Ztex



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 614
Location: DFW - GKY

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And don't ya be spittin on the ramp either....

Quote:
nor shall any person expectorate on the floors, walls, or other surfaces of any Airport;


Stupidity of the highest order....

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There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.

   
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Ztex



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 614
Location: DFW - GKY

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And...are these people in trouble?

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSAT


I can not get over how stupid this rule is....how can it be enforceable? Legal?
I hope the San Antonio lawyer never comes to DFW....

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There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.

   
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RWB



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Location: KSAT

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All those rules are for while ON airport property. I do most of my spotting from public areas or private property with permission, but Landmark Aviation seems to think they own the public street, sidewalk and strip center across from their location.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/31430864@N07/7456982014/
It's a prime spotting location for 12R landings http://goo.gl/maps/U40L

   
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Ztex



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 614
Location: DFW - GKY

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read closely they control EVERYTHING! lol

Quote:
Section 3-18 - Boundaries.
The boundaries of the Airport shall include all land owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by the City, whether inside or outside the City limits, for the express purpose of accommodating aviation-related operations, including but not limited to additional areas controlled by the City adjacent to such land at any and all Airport facilities for the proper operation of or access to the Airport....

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There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.

   
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RWB



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Location: KSAT

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ztex wrote:
If you read closely they control EVERYTHING! lol

Quote:
Section 3-18 - Boundaries.
The boundaries of the Airport shall include all land owned, leased, or otherwise controlled by the City, whether inside or outside the City limits, for the express purpose of accommodating aviation-related operations, including but not limited to additional areas controlled by the City adjacent to such land at any and all Airport facilities for the proper operation of or access to the Airport....

That's all subject to interpretation Laughing I saw this on DFWs site, Sec.8.3.a
Quote:
A person commits an offense if, he takes still or motion pictures for commercial use OR PUBLIC EXHIBITION, PUBLICATION, or display on any portion of the Airport grounds without a permit

(emphasis mine) posting a photo to the internet would fall under either.

The public relations mgr. at SAT was nice enough to listen to my concerns regarding photography in public areas, mainly the training of airport employees to report suspicious activity verses ones civil rights as the airport is the one who trains them in the class for their security badge, and having a person come out with that badge and tell me they are going confiscate my camera is a liability for the airport and the city. Wink

   
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Ztex



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 614
Location: DFW - GKY

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've spoken with DFW folks about that line in their policy...they assure me that is meant to cover commercial use only...even though it does not read that way HA! ...And I've never had a problem at DFW...sort of...they frown on folks hanging out at places other than the official Founders Plaza observation spot.

It's a great gesture to the community that DFW has Founders Plaza. Many other airports could learn from them. They consulted with local aviation pilots, enthusiast and photographers on the location and layout for the spot. It's a good thing.

http://www.dfwairport.com/founders/index.php

Houston has great relations with the local photogs and enthusiasts. Check out the spotters website and how they deal with the local airport authority. sure would be nice if we could get something like that going around here...

http://www.houstonspotters.net/resources/airports/

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There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.

   
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RWB



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Location: KSAT

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for those links! I'm going to Email them to the PR guy as thats one thing we talked about, having an offical area listed on the SAT web site for spotters!

   
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Florida Metal



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be happy you have spotters areas at DFW. We don't have that at MCO or SFB.

As for Landmark Aviation going after people for taking pictures of planes across the street - they can't do anything about it. However, who owns the shopping center property? I don't know the lay of the land at SAT but there is a good chance that SAT Airport Authority owns the shopping center property and leases it out to a management company. GOAA (Greater Orlando Aviation Authority) does that too. There is a lot of restaurants/shopping centers etc near both MCO and Orlando Executive ORL that you would have no idea they were a part of airport property. If you are near an approach to a runway by a shopping center, its a good chance you are on airport property at that shopping center as it might be near the Runway Protection zone.

Spotting is near impossible at MCO or SFB - you pull out your camera and police are on you in seconds as if they have a cop posted waiting near every possible spotting are. Then we wonder why crime is going up in Orlando - because cops are too worried about spotters instead of the real criminals.

But if ever in Florida for spotting - go to MIA or TPA, much friendlier to spotters.

   
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Ztex



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 614
Location: DFW - GKY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard stories about MCO and their rabid anti-photo enforcement....I don't know what they are trying to accomplish. They have snared a few unsuspecting tourists (which Orlando would dry up and blow away without) and a few determined locals. Like a guy at DFW once told me...it's no secret that there are airplane at an airport.....

I wish you luck at SAT. Hopefully they will listen and open up to the community!

Zane

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Florida Metal



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orlando Sanford SFB is even worse. I have very few pictures from there - you stop for a second near the runway, one of their cops will be on you. They have their own police force that the Director happens to also be the chief of - Larry Dale is a former Sanford police chief also. Not sure why they need their own police force with so few flights. MCO just uses Orlando Police Dept.

MCO has gotten a lot more photographer friendly in the past few years - not quite FLL, RSW, SRQ or MIA yet, but if you call the airport you can get a spotter pass to take pictures from the garage. However you will need at least a 400mm + lens since the runways are pretty far. Orlando Executive Airport, which is owned by GOAA also has a park next to their approach that was pretty much built for aircraft watching and spotting.

   
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RWB



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Location: KSAT

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update! Well after several emails with R.Johnson, Public Relations, he stated it was decided that the upper level of the long-term parking garage would be listed as an official aircraft spotting area on their website. We went from 3 areas acknowledged to just the one, somewhat dissapointed but at least one would be 'official'.

Noticed SAT had their newly designed site up this morning which has nothing listed http://www.sanantonio.gov/SAT/MediaCenter/FilmingattheAirport.aspx
Quote:
All commercial, non-profit and student filming, videography and photography activities on Airport property require prior review and approval of the Airport Director, a City of San Antonio Aviation Department permit.
Areas of availability are very limited and filming is prohibited beyond the security checkpoints or on the airfield itself.


And this for "media" http://www.sanantonio.gov/SAT/MediaCenter.aspx
Maybe I should start my own non-profit aviation 'news' organization? Have a badge with my picture and something like San Antonion Aviation News on it.
Or just HAMMER down with letters to the ACLU as it is a 1st ammendment issue, those are public sidewalks and one has a smoking area near terminal B which overlooks the United ramp, what's more dangerous a lit cigarette 200 feet from an aircraft being fueled or someone in the same spot taking pictures??

   
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Florida Metal



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RWB wrote:
Update! Well after several emails with R.Johnson, Public Relations, he stated it was decided that the upper level of the long-term parking garage would be listed as an official aircraft spotting area on their website. We went from 3 areas acknowledged to just the one, somewhat dissapointed but at least one would be 'official'.



This is MCO correct? Or are you talking about SAT. Because MCO has a Public Affairs person named Rod Johnson and you can get spotting passes to shoot from the garage - I would recommend a 400mm lens or better however since the runways are a long area from the terminal and the only shots you can get are aircraft pulling into the gates and there might be obstructions such as palm trees, light poles etc. If you are in Orlando and into GA spotting, Orlando Executive as Kittinger Park, which is a spotter park - has a radio that broadcasts the tower in the picnic area, although it hasn't worked for a couple months and we are trying to fix it. We had NBAA last week, so basically every business aircraft type (except Lockheed Jetstars) was here even the new G280 and G650, Global 6000, Citation M2 and others. We had probably 300-400 Brits spotting all around the property and that was no problem. Unfortunately winds the whole week were out of the west, which wasn't favorable for Kittinger Park spotting.

However if you go to MIA - El Dorado Furniture is great for East winds on Runway 9, or for line up to take off shots, north ramp activities and Runway 12 arrivals, Runway 8 departures there are the specially made photo holes - say hi to the Legendary Eddy Gual, Joe Fernandez and some of the Cuban spotters - they will give you a great history of the airport. I stayed at the Hilton, which is great for when the winds are out of the west - just ask for a balcony facing the airport - although it will run you $150 a night and unfortunately the winds (forecasted to be out of the west whole weekend shifted right after I got there Friday and also shifted Saturday - and I still spent more time at El Dorado.

FLL - East winds there is a spotter parking lot along Runway 9L. West winds, they have a designated parking area in the garage for spotting and you have close shots of arrivals and line ups to take off

TPA - North winds afternoon - Cypress Point Park. South or North winds in the morning - Short term garage.

   
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RWB



Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Posts: 25
Location: KSAT

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All regarding SAT, as far as starting my own "news media organization", I think that would be the ticket!
http://definitions.uslegal.com/m/media-organization/
Quote:
The term "media organization" means a person or entity engaged in disseminating information to the general public through a newspaper, magazine, other publication, radio, television, cable television, or other medium of mass communication. (2 USCS 1602)

I'm a person, disseminating information to the general public (identifying aircraft at San Antonio) through a medium of mass comunication (the internet) Very Happy


Last edited by RWB on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

   
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Florida Metal



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh interesting because MCO's Public Relations person is an R. Johnson too and the "official spotting" location at MCO is the garage

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