To post or not to post?

[Tigherland]

To my brothers from another mother.

I was going through this forums and reading some topics about what to carry with ya to the airports, ie. Scopes, Zoom lens, telescope, and other type of enhancement devices.
My thought on this is..
I enjoy taking the time to build a friendship with the managers of the airport if thats possible. At some larger location it's very hard getting into these top CEO's offices without having a inside scope.
Because of this method, I repeatly go to several of these airports with no problems. Once there, it doesn't take a few times to see certain aircrafts in and out for a person to put two and two together of the type of flight plans or reason for departure and approaches.

Don't burn your bridges trying to get a machine on a runway. It's not worth it. I haven't came across many photos opt. that I would want to throw it all away for some rare Lynx that isn;t all that in the beginning.
So far, knock on wood. I haven't had any problems walking into these top locations and snapping a few photos. But what I have to remind myself is this. I'm a guess! PERIOD. You go trying to zoom in and get a shot of something and search the tail numbers without permission and post it.
You going ot PISS some folks off or worst.
Word will then get around to other airports and your name and/or out-fit will be mud.
And also you burn that bridge for others that are in you tracks as you leave and it's all over then.
The main thing is, there are some folks out there that don't want someone hanging out their laundry to dry for others to see.
There are to many ways now to find out the owners of airports and aircrafts, you may have to explain the who, what , when and how's when you go calling.
I personally go at it in this approach, and this is just me. I make a sale of myself to them and it has open doors and rolled out the carpets.

Just use some common sense when your standing in the bushes with a 500 mm lense sticking it through the links of a chain lin fence to find now you're before the man explaining it then.

But this is me. Guys, gals take care. I do enoy the photos you all have gotten thus far of the Aero Commanders. Keep looking.
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J.Barbour

[John Little]

OK, so I have taken a few day's to dissect what you posted, and felt like that there needed to be some response to the issues you brought up. This is my opinion only.

I have also spent 30 years developing relationships at airports, and some have been very successful, and an equal number un-successful. But post 9-11 changed a lot of peoples perception about airport security. Had the 9-11 perps used say buses, boats, or another transportation method, then those of us who have spent many years taking pictures of "aircraft" of all types probably would not have near the issues we now contend with to accomplish our hobby.

There are many web sites available to track flights of both commercial and general aviation. In my humble opinion, so what ! I take pictures of airplanes, I don't have a specific interest in where they came from, and how long they are here, is there a celebrity on board (yawn), or the likes. I f an owner or pilot is willing to talk with me about their airplane then that is "icing on the cake" for me, but I never intrude, nor do I disrupt any air crew or pilot. They are doing their job at that moment and sometimes it is just not a good time for them.

For me it is about the airplane and the best picture I can take of it. Sometimes they turn out just fine (for my liking), and other times I can take a stinker picture better the anyone. It's a gamble.

You are correct about one point, IF you have on-field priviledge's, then you are a "guest" and nothing more.....you are at the whim and call of the individual escorting (if tyou are secosrted) you. So you treat them with the utmost respect, and professionalism, and then you get invited back, or even better they talk to other ariport managers, and they take your character into account, and invite you to their airfields. If you not escorted, then follow every rule put into place that they ask of you.....ie don't say you are going to park at one place, and then let them find you halfway at the other end of the airport.

Your note also seems to mildly suggest that people who post on this web site, somehow try and "stealth" their way around an airfield, to get that one special shot, or a group of shots, trying to hide their intentions and their reasons for being there.

I have taken a reasonable amount of time to look through a majority of the top posters on this site, and I must refute that intent. I have also read the posts on this forum, and there is absolutely no one that has posted in any way, nor condoned this way of getting a picture.

I always make my presence known, I do not hide my camera, I do not hide my transceiver, and if anyone from law enforcement stops by to see what I am doing, I talk with them in a professional manner, and 99.999% of the time, after seeing some of the pictures on my camera's LCD screen, tell me to have a "Good day, and enjoy yourself" (as long as I am not impeding trafffic, or causing any issues that would be considered a problem by law enforcement). I even have officers that give me their business cards, and ask if I could email them a picture of something they saw that they liked. My response "absolutely, not a problem", and I follow-up immediately.

One last point that is really critical, if you are asked by a pilot or an aircraft owner to not publish a particular picture of an aircraft, then do not publish it as a courtesy to them. You may find, like I have on a number of occasions, the next time these folks are in town, and you are at the airport, you will get the picture you want, and maybe even a tour of the inside of the plane.

Also follow some common courtesy rules that have worked for me. If you take a picture of an airplane belonging to the Drug Enforcement Agency, don't publish the picture of the plane. You never know when that plane may have to be used to spot and track drug runners and or people who are doing what they can to destroy other peoples lives. The same for some critical operations like Law Enforcement (unless you obtain permission), and then sometimes just ask people if they mind. In very rare circumstances have I ever had anyone say No.

So, that is my two cents worth, I did not want this to be in any way confrontational, nor without regard for the opinions you expressed, but it was important to air the other side of the coin.

[Tigherland]

I agree with you totally. The post 9-11 has put a hinderants on everything. Thanks for your reply.
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J.Barbour

[Ztex]

I have been photographing aircraft for 20+ years.

It is a hobby I enjoy and now that sites like these exist it is even more fun because now I can share my hobby with other like minded people. Very few people in my personal circle of friends are airport bums. Very few understand what it is that we do and why we do it.

In the past year I have had my first ever run-ins with people who are not happy to see me and my camera at the airport.

First off the incidents.

#1 - I took a photograph of Marine one and a few other HMX-1 birds on the ramp at TSTC airport (CNW) in Waco. As soon as I turned to return to my car in the parking lot a young Marine ran up to me and asked me what I was doing and asked me for my Drivers License and Social Security number.
I explained what I was about and complied fully with his requests.

Never heard anything from this.

FYI, I have taken photos of Air Force One on the same ramp with no problems.

#2 - I took a photo of a Metro liner in gray Air Force paint at Meacham Field (FTW) in Fort Worth. this aircraft was visible from the public parking lot as well as North Main Street.
As soon as I started to drive away an employee of the company that the airplane was departing from (ATK Systems) Stopped me and asked what I was doing and called on his phone for help.
A police officer in Air Force BDU's and another fellow in a black jump suit and the assistant airport manager came to speak with me. They took my name and told me I was not allowed to take photographs at the airport.
I politely explained my situation and my confusion at this statement. The airport manager told me it was a city ordinance and sure enough after some thorough research he was right.
The city of Ft. Worth considers anything behind the fence to be a restricted area and photography is not allowed "in or near a restricted area" without permission.

So I don't photograph at Meacham field very much at all any more...even though there is an aviation museum on the field...

#3 - A few weeks ago I was at my local Arlington Municipal Airport (GKY), where I learned to fly and have many friends on field.
The Met Life blimp was there and I stopped in on my lunch hour, like I have been prone to do since about 1984 or so.... and I was followed by a t-hanger tenant.
I stopped my car and got out to introduce myself to this fellow that was tailgating me across the airport at 10 MPH... He had questions like Who are you? What is your business? Real accusatory in nature. When I told him I was taking photos of the blimp he asked me "is that your aircraft?"
He told me I needed permission to be on the field...I produced the airport managers card and told him I had his permission....He didn't like that at all.

I spoke with the airport manager. He understood my plight.

#4 - Today...I was at the same airport (GKY) and a fellow with a local flight school waved me down and proceeded to ask the same type of questions in the same belligerent nature as the t-hanger guy. I gave the same response about my hobby and my history at the airport...he told me "we reported your license plate to the TSA" and walked away.

I had immediately had another discussion with the airport manager. He was quite nice and understanding. He rolled his eyes at the TSA comment and offered me his card again and suggested that I ask for permission before taking pictures of the flight school aircraft. (flown predominantly by folks of Arab and Indian persuasion)

We had a nice chat. All is well between the city official and I...

The moral to this story is that there are some overly cautious people out there that seem ready to catch the next Osama or Mathias Rust or whom ever. They see it as their purview to adjudicate who is right and who is wrong. I completely understand the security for the President's aircraft and security of military hardware. But at public airports I have certain rights of access and expect to be treated fairly, and I inturn will deal with everyone in a fair, friendly and courteous manner.

The AOPA has put out guidelines on how to deal with GA airport security http://www.aopa.org/airportwatch/

They publish the TSA hot line phone number and encourage folks to call in suspicious activity. They also ask that we get to know each other at the airport become familiar with the folks who inhabit the the airport and become good neighbors.

These folks at the local muni are not being good neighbors.

Be careful out there.

I'll let you know if I get a visit from the feds...

[Bluedharma]

Zane,
Since I started this hobby, I have pretty much followed John Little’s advice (stated above) and have yet to have a bad experience.
The aviation photographer is the best friend some of these security guys could have.
There is nothing like a guy standing out in the open... with a camera and a cell phone to call 911 to deter bad activities around airports.

Regards
_________________
Live the Good Life
Bluedharma
http://flickr.com/photos/bluedharma/
http://www.airport-data.com/photographers/Bluedharma;1045/
bluedharmaairportdata@gmail.com