Photography Question

[gjoe]

Hello all,

I am new to this hobby as it is starting to grow on me. I currently photograph RR's and other things. I was wondering if anyone has run into problems taking pictures of planes or other aircraft with this whole 9/11 stuff.

Any tips, info or general procedures would be greatly appreciated...

Thank you and love all the pictures! I have one posted you can search it as N2220F

Joe Geronimo
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Joe Geronimo
Amazing images on frame at a time!

[Brad Campbell]

Hi Joe,

Welcome to the website and to Aviation Photography. I think the answer to your question would be 'yes' - there are those of us that have run into problems taking photos of aircraft since 9/11. I have not personally but I know of others who have. Maybe they will show up and be able to help more with some specifics. I was worried about it before going to McCarran - the major airport here in Las Vegas. I went to the airports website and contacted them with my intensions. They in return forwarded my a letter saying it was alright to be doing what I was doing. When I got to the airport I carry the letter with me. I've never been confronted but it makes me feel reassured that I at least have the letter. Keep us posted and good luck to ya!

[Michael Martin]

I'm a frequency visitor to PDK (DeKalb Peachtree outside of Atlanta), and they actually have a viewing area built at the base of the tower (query PDK for the pictures). ATL (aka Hartsfield) is a totally different story. I have been threatened with arrest for shooting pictures from the parking deck! I guess I'm a bit lazy, but I know all I have to do is send my letter to the airport commissioner to get an "OK" to shoot letter back so I can present it to APD. Using common sense and not telling the police "I have the right" will keep you out of trouble. I have a great area to shoot RR photo's in Marietta (GA), and have never been harrased by LE or anyone else.

[Michael Martin]

Go to the "Airports" forum and read my message about taking pictures at ATL!
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[Micha Lueck]

Hi there

I actually never really got into trouble. In Fiji I asked a security guard if he can let me just through the gate, since the fence was really bad. He just wanted to have a quick look at my passport and allowed me to take a photo or two - very friendly.

On Arliners.net there was a similar post a while ago, and somebody there posted a document that is always good to have with you when you take photos at airports. It is in pdf format, and I uploaded it for you to download at http://www.geocities.com/micha_nzl/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

The only time you really have to be careful is when any military parts are involved...

Happy photgraphing!
micha

[Doug Robertson]

That's an excellent link to a great reference prepared by an attorney who has written a book on the subject. Thank you Micha; the link is something we all can benefit by reading.
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PP ASEL

[Micha Lueck]

my pleasure! hope it helps. Although I am not in the US, I always have it in my camera bag....

Cheers
micha

[John Little]

I have found that over the last 12 months or so, it has actually gotton easier to photograph around airports that are General Aviation Facilities, but getting harder to take them at Commercial Aviation Airports.

Centennial, Front Range, and Jeffco have all been very accomodating to taking pictures, but DIA is a completely different story.

Stapleton was a breeze due to the vcinity of the fence line to 26 Right and Left, and 25 Center. about 30 feet to wingtip when planes were landing on 26 Left.

DIA is now surrounded by farmland, and private property, and there is no way to get within 1.5 miles around the fenced perimeter.

I did inquire of DIA, and they offered some suggestions, which included taking pictures from curbside on level 3 of the parking structures (which costs parking money for each hour), or contacting car rental companies to see if I could park at drop off sides near the runways (which no one agreed to), but the absolute rule is no parking along the roads into the airport (500.00 city fine), and you cannot approach any fence line of the airport closer than 6'-0", whcih means you cannot shoot through the fence if you cannot see over it, so those pictures would have little value.

If you go to Salt Lake City, Dallas-Fort Worth, or McCarren and a couple of others, they still have places that you can actually park and take pictures un-obstructed.

I would also say that the smaller airports may not have too many issues, because they know that we are enthusiast and would not ever create an issue, nor would we tolerate anyone causing problems to pilots and aircraft, and with our cameras being in constant use, we make some of the best "un-official" security officers they have!

[Glenn E. Chatfield]

The only places I have trouble is when I find military machines on pedestals and I want to get shots of them. They used to let you in these places but now it is almost impossible. At Springfield, OH they have several jets posted now and I almost didn't get in to shoot them, but I sweet-talked the guy at the gate telling him I was a 1970 grad of the Springfield North High visiting and I really wanted to get those shots for my hobby. I even told him about my visiting the base in 1970 and being able to sit in one of the F-84s and then later getting a shot of the first pedestal bird they had, which was one of their old F-84s! He decided since I was a previous visitor and a "home boy" that it was okay so long as I kept in his line of sight. A couple other ANG bases I was able to wave my FAA ID and get in, but I tried it at Terre Haute, IN and was rudely sent on my way!

[John Little]

Hi Glenn,

And since they have the palnes on the pedestals like that, you would think it would be a real non-issue.

The Air Force Academy has a B-52 in a similar configuration, but it is outside the gates to the school and that makes it easy enough, but I was in Boise about a month ago, and wanted a picture of the F-111 they had, and although in 1984 I was there and got the chance to sit in the right hand seat of the live bid and shoot some pictures from the ramp, I found that they had no fondness for individuals taking pictures anymore.

The Air Force Museum at Hill Air Force Base was the place to get pictures in the 90's, and may still be, but I have not been there in 8 years, so I do not know their status anymore.

Bukley ANG, and the left hand side of the field in Colorado Springs is about the same regarding restrictions, but I would not ever try and take any through the fences of the facility.

Every where I go, people admit that taking pictures of aircraft is a great American past time, and a time honored tradition, but since 9-11 and under the current political circumstances they admit that they are having to restrict aircraft photography.

There was also some comments at a recent meeting with several airport professionals regarding the digital photography age. Before digital is was more complicated to scan and transmit or post pictures on the internet, and we all used film cameras. But it is the information about ownership and aircraft movement around the country, has drawn concerns about "tracking". The fact is you can track just about any airplane via the internet, IF you were inclined to do so.

Me, I don't really care to follow aircraft movement, and most of the time I don't even inquire about registry numbers, because I just like to take my best pictures of the planes. Ownership, and movement just does not interst "me" as a part of the hobby.

[Glenn E. Chatfield]

Hi John,

I don't care much about N-numbers except that they are often the source to finding the military serials. About 20 years ago I learned that in England a big hobby is to collect serial of planes seen, sort of like marking birds seen for birdwatchers. I thought about that as an idea to at least identify the ones I shot, so I looked at all my old shots and tried to see numbers on them. Most I identified that way, but then when I got my computer and internet, I started searching identities of those in museums that I had shots of. It is interesting to see how many times the Air Force moves planes around from museum to museum. Several birds I have taken in the past at the Air Force Museum in Dayton are out elsewhere now. Same with other birds. I was also excited to find that one AC-130 I shot while active in 1986 was the one I shot at the Air Force Armament Museum in 2003.

[John Little]

Hi Glenn,

For warbirds I can see the interest in seeing how they move assetts around the country or how certain aircraft end up in museums or private collections.

The museums don't have many issues on photography, so you can get a real feel for the history of a plane.

It's the cautionary things on active aircraft (military, private, or corporate) that seems to get people a bit rankled......in fact I had one person ask me not to take pictures of his plane because he was going through a nasty divorce.....sometimes this hobby brings out things you really did not want to know about people......

[Glenn E. Chatfield]

Today I got an interesting opportunity. One of the guys I work with called me and told me about a KC-135 that was parked on the Rockwell-Collins ramp so I went in (I'm off today) to get a shot of the bird. It was blue and white, which is unusual to say the least for a KC-135. It was 57-2589, nicknamed "Speckled Trout". It's a temporary replacement for the "Speckled Trout" I shot on the same ramp back in November 1998. This one will be replaced by a KC-135R model in the near future. But what was great is that when I went over to see if I could get a shot of it, the captain offered me a tour of the bird. It's the one that the Air Force Chief of Staff uses, so you can imagine what a nice bird it was. Sometimes being an air traffic controller gets you benefits!

Which reminds me of my trip to see my mom in Alabama in Sep 2003. On my way back I wanted to stop at Maxwell AFB to see their aircraft park with preserved machines. It has always been open to the public so I thought I'd get some shots, having never been there before. When I got their the guard said that due to 9-11 security stuff, only active duty or government employees could get in without a sponsor. Fortunately my FAA ID was in my camera bag so I waved it and got in and got some great photos.

[Micha Lueck]

I just got back from a trip with flights through Japan (KIX and NRT). I had 10 hours in NRT and I must say they are really photographer/spotter friendly. They have outside observation areas on both terminals (Terminal 1 is much better!) and even have left small sqaure holes in the fence specifically to take pictures. Wonderful!

DUS also has fantastic observation and photo opportunities: A great deck (and inside area) at the threshhold and taxiway (at the railway terminal) and another one all over the main terminal building. Lots of great opportunities! And access costs only 2 Euro as long as you want to stay. This includes both terminals and the skytrain between railway station and terminal...

I also love airports that suport viewers/photographers with specific opportunities, such as the viewing "hills" outside the direct termminal area, but at the flight path and/or threshhold, such as in MUC and in AKL.

All these airports really do something for "their" spotters, and rest assured you won't run into trouble taking pictures there. In fact, usually you are surrounded by spotters

Cheerio
micha

[John Little]

Hi Micha,

It seems that the number of people that I talk to that live in Western/Eastern Europe, and the Pacific rim areas say that getting aircraft pictures there are the best.

It does say one thing, if you give people with the interest to take pictures of planes by some very simple, and pleasurable accomodations, the boundaries would be easy to stay within, and there would be no reason for authoritive intervention at any time.

It could sure work here as well.